Wednesday, 21 November 2012

W5M332 Ratio Explained

The VR4 and GSR gearbox share most of the same gear ratios believe it or not. Howeverm the drop in first gear ratio is why the VR4 gearbox isnt really suited for performance applications as its slower off the mark and purposely made to pull a heavier car up to speed (although some people prefer the lower ratio for less wheel spin on take off e.g. FWD's, or people having difficulty getting power to the ground on high RPM take off).

Here is a comparison...

VR4 - 2.846; 1.684 (2nd); 1.115 (3rd); 0.833 (4th); 0.666 (5th); 3.166 (Reverse); 3.866 (Front Diff); 4.933 (Final)
GSR (W5M33) - 2.916; 1.684 (2nd); 1.115 (3rd); 0.833 (4th); 0.666 (5th); 3.166 (Reverse); 4.933 (Final)
Also GSR (W5M33) - Transfer 1.090; Final Front 3.8666 (or 2.936); Final Rear 4.9333 (or 4.525) Brackets may denote Aus-spec.. gotta check it.

I think this explains it well...

Going to a lower (numerically higher) gear will increase your RPMs at a given speed but improve your off the line performance. A higher (numerically lower) gear will get you off the line slower but keep your RPMs lower at a given speed.

Changing your tires will also affect the "effective" gear ratio. A taller tyre/wheel combo than stock will have the effect of going to a higher gear i.e. 17" rims. A lower gear counteracts the taller tyre/wheel combo to a degree. Ever wondered why drag cars have such high profile tyres? Wink

Easy way to remember: High number, high RPMs, high "kick". Low number, low RPMs, low "kick".

If anyone wants to add any more please feel free Smile .


Info I've gathered and discovered over time and summarised below.

* VR4 gearbox + VR4 transfer case input spline count = 22 (You will need a 1.090 VR4 transfer case when using a VR4 gearbox as its the only transfer case to suit the gearbox output shaft's spline count) = 3.545 rear diff ratio result. NOTE: VR4 EVO have a 23 spline count therefore refer to below GSR stats.
* GSR gearbox + GSR transfer case input spline count = 23 (You can mix and match a GSR gearbox with a GSR or EVO I-II 1.090 transfer case only) = 3.545 rear diff ratio result
* EVO I-II gearbox + EVO I-II transfer case input spline count= 23 (You can mix and match EVO I-II gearbox with GSR or EVO I-II 1.090 transfer cases only) = 3.909 rear diff ratio result
* EVO III gearbox + EVO III transfer case input spline count = 23 (You MUST USE the EVO III 1.074 transfer case with the EVO III gearbox only as it corrects the ratio to accept a 3.909 rear diff) = 3.909 rear diff ratio result

* First thing's first. All EVO I-III rear diff ratios are 3.909. All EVO I-III RS/GSR had a rear mechancial LSD diff centre, except the EVO 1 GSR which had a viscious LSD rear centre with different length rear driveshaft cups and shafts.
* If you are using an EVO III gearbox, YOU MUST also use an EVO III transfer case to correct the rear ratio to 3.909 - this will suit any of the EVO I-III 3.909 rear diffs.
* To make an EVO rear mech LSD a ratio of 3.545 to suit a E39A Galant VR4 or GSR 3.545 gearbox - Simply keep your existing GSR or VR4 rear diff housing, remove the diff centre and remove the 3.545 crown wheel and pinion from it. Get an EVO rear mech LSD centre, and transfer your 3.545 crown wheel and pinion into it. The replaced parts will NEED to be done by a professional as they need to setup the backlash and tooth contact correctly. If its a tiny bit off you're screwed. This can then go back into your existing housing and your existing axles can plug straight in.

EVO 1-3 gearbox ratios below:

The gear ratios are on under 'evo 1-3 buyers guide'
Here they are anyway:

2.571 (1st)
0.617 (5th)
Rear diff: 3.909

Evo 2-3: (Evo 3 has slightly different transfer and front diff ratio)
2.750 (1st)
0.617 (5th)
Rear diff: 3.909

Gsr: (CD5A)
2.917 (1st)
0.666 (5th)
Rear diff: 3.545

I have also got some info on EVO/GSR/VR4 diff and transfer case ratios below which I got from NZMMC but not sure if they are correct:

VR4s and GSRs:
1.090 Transfer ratio (TR) (24/22)
3.867 (58/15) front diff ratio. (FDR)
3.545 (39/11) Rear diff ratio (RDR)
RDR x TR = 3.868 combined rear final drive
Total final Drive ratio TFD of 4.9333

EVO 1 and 2s:
1.090 (24/22) TR
4.266 (64/15) FDR
3.909 (43/11) RDR
RDR x TR 1.090 (24/22) = 4.264 combined rear final drive
TFD = 5.443

1.074 TR (29/27)
4.200 (63/15) FRD
3.909 (43/11) RDR
RDR x TR = 4.199 combined rear final drive.
TFD = 5.358

The total final drive TFD, is the diff ratio (front or rear+transfer) multiplied by the 37/29 (1.276) primary reduction inside the gearbox that occurs before the diffs.

Contrary to belief, converting one of these 4WD 'boxes to FWD will NOT change the final drive ratio, why the hell would it?

"and yes an evo 2 gearbox and evo 3 rear diff would work together using either the evo 2 or gsr transfer case"

More info on Gearbox Codes thanks to Dirk (agent Orange) on MMCNZ

Evo 1
WQWE: GSR with front LSD
WQFE: RS with front LSD

Evo 2
WPWE: GSR with front LSD
WPFE: RS with front LSD

Evo 3
UPWE: GSR with front LSD
UPFE: RS with front LSD

Just re-posting some info that was lost in the great crash of '04/'05 below.

Evo 1 RS: WQYE, 3.909 ratio, no front lsd.
Evo 2: WPGE, 3.909 ratio, no front lsd.
Evo 2: WPWE, 3.909 ratio, viscous front lsd.
Evo 3: UPYE, 3.909 ratio, no front lsd.
Gsr: NRBE, 3.545 ratio, no front lsd.
Gsr: NRWE, 3.545 ratio, viscous front lsd.
Libero/Gsr: NQBE, 3.545 ratio, no front lsd.

I've had in pieces three different types of CD5A/CD5W Gsr/Libero gearbox and thought the differences may be of interest.

GSR NRBE, 3.545 ratio, no front lsd.
These gearboxes have what are know as 'paper' syncros on 2nd and 3rd gear, rather than the regular brass. These are very sensitive to oil type and will crunch badly with the wrong oil.
I've found Redline MTL works well but only once its fully warmed up.

GSR NRWE, 3.545 ratio, viscous front lsd.
These gearboxes have a viscous front lsd diff. The 58 tooth crownwheel stud pattern is different too, so just having the viscous lsd by itself is useless without the 58-tooth viscous crownwheel. They also require the use of the longer drivers side inner cv joint which is viscous LSD specific. You'll probably have to grab one from an EVO I-III as they are the same and will be easier to place WTB: posts for.
2nd gear is a double syncro unit identical to those found in Evo 2-3's
3rd gear syncro is a regular brass unit.
3rd and 4th gear use a larger hub and syncros than other 'boxes, its the same size as the 1st-2nd hub!
Because of this, Evo 3rd-4th shift forks WILL NOT FIT THESE GEARBOXES. The Evo 1st-2nd fork will still fit however.

Ive had a NRWE apart before. They don't have steel shift forks, and the ratios of all the gears is the same as regular GSR. As stated before, they do have a front viscous LSD.
Another difference is that they don't use 'paper' syncros on 2nd and 3rd like the more common NRBE variation, but rather all brass syncros with a double syncro setup on 2nd gear. 2nd gear is actually the exact same ratio and syncro as evo 2-3s.
Since NRWE use all regular brass syncros, and the viscous LSDs have their own sealed silicone oils, you can use just about any good gear oil.
Its the NRBE gsr 'boxes you have to be careful with oil selection. Most of these NRBE gearboxes are using the wrong type of oil for their 'paper' syncros on 2nd and 3rd gear causing crunching and people curse their supposedly f**ked syncros.

LIBERO NQBE, 3.545 ratio, no front lsd.
Found in GT Liberos, (and probably others) these are EXACTLY the same as the NRWE described in detail above, EXCEPT that they don't have a front lsd.

Proton Satria 1300cc: 3.363; 1.947 (2nd); 1.285 (3rd); 0.939 (4th); 0.777 (5th)
Proton Satria 1500cc: 3.363; 1.947 (2nd); 1.285 (3rd); 0.939 (4th); 0.777 (5th)
Proton Satria GTi / M21 1800cc DOHC: 3.083; 1.947 (2nd); 1.285 (3rd); 0.939 (4th); 0.777 (5th) - Code F5M222VRXE
Mitsu CC Lancer 1500cc Carburettor: 3.363 (1st); 1.947 (2nd); 1.285 (3rd); 0.939 (4th); 0.777 (5th); 4.021 (Final); 3.083 (Reverse)
Mitsu CC Lancer 1800cc MPI: 3.363 (1st); 1.947 (2nd); 1.285 (3rd); 0.939 (4th); 0.777 (5th); 4.021 (Final); 3.083 (Reverse)
Proton Satria 1600cc/ Cyborg MIVEC CA4A/ CJ4A: 3.083; 1.947 (2nd); 1.285 (3rd); 0.939 (4th); 0.756 (5th); 4.592 (final)
At 100kmh revs should be about 3100rpm. The difference could be tyre size.
Cyborg MIVEC CJ4A: 3.071 (1st); 1.947 (2nd); 1.379 (3rd); 1.030 (4th); 0.767 (5th); 4.625 (final); 3.363 (Reverse)
At 100kmh your revs should be about 3160rpm (slightly higher due to higher final drive ratio) - This gearbox has different ratios throughout compared to others (except all 2nd gears are the same) - This one is made for pure acceleration provided you can get power to the ground :roll:

A CYBORG RS CJ4A with an ATS Final Drive Ratio of 5.000 will rev at 3416rpm at 100kmh. This gives quicker acceleration but lower top speed.

The top speed for a CJ4A is theoretically 237.32kmh.
With the ATS 5.00 ratio theoretical top speed is 215.86kmh. 

Here are the 1995 GS-T Eclipse FWD 4G63 Turbo specs:

Engine Displacement: 1997 cc.
Engine Location: FRONT
Engine Type: TURBO
Engine Max Horsepower: 210 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Engine Torque: 214 lb-ft @ 3000 rpm
Compression Ratio: 8.5 :1
Maximum engine speed: 7000 rpm
Transmission Type: MANUAL
Number of Gears: 5
Gear Ratio 1st: 3.09 :1
Gear Ratio 2nd: 1.83 :1
Gear Ratio 3rd: 1.22 :1
Gear Ratio 4th: 0.89 :1
Gear Ratio 5th: 0.74 :1
Final drive ratio: 4.15 :1

Driving wheels: FRONT
Car test weight: 3220 lb.
% weight on front wheels: 61 %

The GS-T Eclipse's ratios are totally different to any of the other Mitsu AWD or FWD specs above and interesting to see the first gear 3.09 slightly higher than the M21/GTi/Satria 1600/MIVEC boxes 3.08.. the rest of the gears 2nd through to 5th are lower than the rest of the FWD boxes. This would make it the strongest and 'best of both worlds' FWD (not AWD) box I have seen so far (determined by ratios) except for first the gear... but the difference in 1st gear is so small a difference its virtually negligible. The GS-T's final drive ratio is about in the medium of all the others as well giving this box a nice spread over all the FWD boxes thus far. Will have to see what rpm/speed per gear stats it generates versus a converted AWD VR4 box and stock FWD GLXi box


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